Curse

X-Plosiv · Apr 29, 2011, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Was searching for this thread but couldn't find it, and didn't know where to put it to be honest.

With this 6th year event, we have a possibility to exchange Razah to Mesmer.

My question is: Should we - or not?

My normal 7H team consists of 2 mesmers, 2 ritualists and triple necros. From time to time i swap out 2 ritualist, etc.

Now thinking, should I change Razah to mesmers. Would 3 mesmers in a team benefit me more than 2 mesmers / 2 ritualists ?

I bet some more people are trying to make cons and pros out of this decision, so I hope we will get some smarter answers here.

FoxBat · Apr 29, 2011, 07:11 AM // 07:11

Esurge - Razah
Esurge/Panic
Illusion
SoGM/ST offense - Xandra
N/Rt SoS (12 channel 11 resto 6+2 SR)
Minion Bomber
ER Prot/Other healer

Garuntee this is better than discord at least.

X-Plosiv · Apr 29, 2011, 08:01 AM // 08:01

Was thinking to setup up this too:

1. Discord
2. Discord
3. Discord
4. E-Surge
5. E-Surge
6. Panic
7. Ritualist healer

Just curious what builds do you use, could you hit up builds codes?
Curious to try atleast in some VQ or missions to see how does it combine with my gameplay, and don't have free time these days to test some builds I'm thinking to tyy out, and i lack knowledge of mesmers and ritualists especially to do some good team builds though I've been observing 7H build setups thread and learning about them.

Reason that I use Discord lays in that that so far he showed as superior than any other thing I've tried with these 3 necros. Currently working on VQ + mapping, so need something reliable and fast

Thanks in advance,

X-Plosiv · Apr 29, 2011, 08:29 AM // 08:29

I just got from a break before few months, so beeun using Triple Necros, 2 mesmers, 2 ritualists to finish my VQing, and it works like charm. anything tried so far in the game wasn't that hard, so don't really think I'm that bad, but oh well.

Now trying to speed that up a little, so was thinking to change Razah from Ritualist to Mersmer and use 3 mesmers, 1 ritualist, 3 necros ...Ritualist would be healer.

How would that work?

Just trying to find something better than currently setup I'm using.

For E-Surge, is this good? Click here.

Don't know basically nothing much about Mesmers, will start play with one in few months, since they are interesting ..

thanks you all for answers
always good to learn something new

Arctica · Apr 29, 2011, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Anyway, Razah is better as a rit, imo. 3 discords, a Panic mes, an Ineptitude mes, a SoS and a SoGM rit work great as a team, imo.

X-Plosiv · Apr 29, 2011, 08:37 AM // 08:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arctica

Anyway, Razah is better as a rit, imo. 3 discords, a Panic mes, an Ineptitude mes, a SoS and a SoGM rit work great as a team, imo.

That is what I use at the moment, so was interested is there something better at the moment. I'm not talking about some special areas, I'm talking about all-wide area team....for special areas I change builds a bit, all depends on area, but all-in-all, this setup pretty much run me through everything without problem.

FoxBat · Apr 29, 2011, 08:59 AM // 08:59

Currently I am playing with 4 mes mercs on caster player, I've only been trying the 3 mes/1 rt setup on a 2nd account melee so far which is very different than what you probably want. You could start with the base below though, which I think was the 2nd best time in the Raisu thread.

1) Me/Ps are running 7 command, think that's 9 insp and FC
2) Change the Me/Mo's elite to Panic.
3) Change the SoS to N/Rt with 12 channel/11 resto/8 SR.
4) BiP not as needed if you are not running standard of wisdom, but the bars are insp light. You may have to drop shatter hex for more emanage, wnwn is probably better than drain enchant in most areas, but you can use both.

I'm sure some people will pick that apart to more "standard" bars with N/Mo prot and ineptitude and SoGM and so forth, its fine if you want to do that, just not what I run. The mesmer bars could also be optimized or things swapped further. But regardless you should find this kind of thing miles ahead of discord while requiring even less skill to run, if people still think discord is better than trip mez after that time trial thread there is not much more I can say.

X-Plosiv · Apr 29, 2011, 09:11 AM // 09:11

Interesting, might try it, just still not sure if I want to change Razah to mesmer.

Got about 2/3 VQ to do, so might try that if I get some time now because of work and college.

Might try Razah as Me, if I dont like it, return him to Rt.

Thanks all so far for comments, hope this thread helped someone deciding either RT or ME for Razah

Arctica · Apr 29, 2011, 09:14 AM // 09:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by X-Plosiv

That is what I use at the moment, so was interested is there something better at the moment. I'm not talking about some special areas, I'm talking about all-wide area team....for special areas I change builds a bit, all depends on area, but all-in-all, this setup pretty much run me through everything without problem.

Recently I am running with a team of 4 mesmers (Inept, Panic and 2 E-surge) - similar to what FoxBat recommends above me. I usually add an MM protter and 2 healers (an UA and and a Life Sheath protter), me running as SoS. If you are confident with healing, you may change the LS protter with another damage dealer, but the 4 mesmers usually cut through foes in most areas. Of course sometimes it is needed to adjust builds to areas, but those are usually minor twists.

X-Plosiv · Apr 29, 2011, 09:24 AM // 09:24

Still not sure either I'll use Razas as rt or me.

One question Artica, I posted build I would use for E-Surge up, is that good? 2 identical heroes to run those builds, or to swap some skills between them two, so i get more diversity.

Was curious, could i run 2 mesmers (Inept, Panic), and 2 elements with E-Surge...that way with them and discord, i could have full party of 8 (I would run barrage or fire/poison, but probably SoS for faster VQ)...

Thanks for your comments to be honest, giving me a idea that this could work faster than my currently setup.

1. Discord
2. Discord
3. Discord
4. Inept
5. Panic
6. E/me E-Surge
7. E/me E-Surge
8. Me with SoS or Barrage.

Then if I need more heals, I can easily kick one e/me, and put monk or Razah as healer.

could this be faster and more safe than my previous setup?
I hate myself for not having too much free time so I could check it out myself, so asking for opinions.

And for people who don't like Discord, I used it, used sabway before, and some other builds, and so far, enjoy with Discord since it have been a good thing for me.

MArcSinus · Apr 29, 2011, 09:36 AM // 09:36

1. N/Rt Curse Resto hybrid
2. N/Mo MM Prot
3. P/Any Commandogon
4. SoS Resto
5. Ineptitude Mesmer
6. E-Surge Mesmer / SoGM Rit
7. Panic / E-Surge Mesmer

If you want Razah as an SoGM/ST rit or E-Surge mesmer is entirely up to you. If you like spiritway you might a well keep it a rit, otherwise mesmer is superior.

X-Plosiv · Apr 29, 2011, 09:52 AM // 09:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by MArcSinus

1. N/Rt Curse Resto hybrid
2. N/Mo MM Prot
3. P/Any Commandogon
4. SoS Resto
5. Ineptitude Mesmer
6. E-Surge Mesmer / SoGM Rit
7. Panic / E-Surge Mesmer

If you want Razah as an SoGM/ST rit or E-Surge mesmer is entirely up to you. If you like spiritway you might a well keep it a rit, otherwise mesmer is superior.

Something similar I have in mind, after some thinking.

Me going SoS, discord, ineptitute, panic, e surge, and 1 healer (either monk UA or RIT healer)...
should do better than now I'm doing

Jeydra · Apr 29, 2011, 09:58 AM // 09:58

This thread is about Razah, not optimal 7H builds right ...

Anyway about Razah - I think it's a great idea to allow some flexibility to match mercenaries and it goes some way to reducing the in-game advantage that mercenaries give. However, choosing Razah is a bad idea. The two professions with which mercenaries give the most advantage are Rits and Mesmers. Razah is a Rit. The standard SoS / SoGM / ST templates are so powerful that giving up on a Rit is a brave decision. Rits are stronger than Mesmers, like it or not. So the direct answer to your question "would 3 mesmers in a team benefit me more than 2 mesmers / 2 ritualists" is no (unless you yourself are a Rit primary - things may change then), and my Razah will stay as a Rit.

Having MOX turn into a primary-profession-changing hero instead would've been so much better ...

Xenomortis · Apr 29, 2011, 12:22 PM // 12:22

You could go with a N/Rt to replace an SoS Rit since they don't make much of Spawning, but you'll be strictly inferior since you'd lack Channeling runes (and Restoration ones if you take heals).
Without doing that, a third Mes doesn't beat a second Rit.

Dzjudz · Apr 29, 2011, 12:34 PM // 12:34

An ESurge mesmer is stronger than a SoGM rit, provided you know how to pull/ball a little.

FoxBat · Apr 29, 2011, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

You could go with a N/Rt to replace an SoS Rit since they don't make much of Spawning, but you'll be strictly inferior since you'd lack Channeling runes (and Restoration ones if you take heals).
Without doing that, a third Mes doesn't beat a second Rit.

Sos primaries do more spirit damage but they're kinda meh healers with just siphon, then don't have energy to keep painful bond up when taxed on heals... soul reaping isn't all downside. Either way I'd take the channeling hit to run an esurge versus the usual generic stuff like commandagon, discord, or curses for caster primary...

Jeydra · Apr 29, 2011, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Really? SoGM Rits deal ~90 DPS I believe to a single target with micro, before counting Painful Bond. How much does an ESurge Mesmer do?

Kunder · Apr 29, 2011, 01:59 PM // 13:59

SoGM is bad because heroes don't have summon spirits. Ridiculously bad if you want to actually complete areas quickly (even worse than discord). That is all.

Either run 2 channeling builds (I go SoS and Rt/Mo smite when I don't have a Me/Mo smite) or channeling + ST rit.

As for Rt vs Mes, I'll probably use rit for my physical characters and mesmer for my casters. 3/4ths of the rit's power comes from using Splinter Weapon well, and when its being placed on something that isn't me it doesn't get used well. The only rit build still obscenely powerful without SW is ST, and you only need to bring an ST for like 5% of the HM game anyway. Mesmers just have so much variety, and plenty of mesmer builds have some amazing synergy with player caster builds just as SW rits add to physical builds.

FoxBat · Apr 29, 2011, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Quote:

Really? SoGM Rits deal ~90 DPS I believe to a single target with micro, before counting Painful Bond. How much does an ESurge Mesmer do?

2 sec cast time after 11 FC = 1.2
after 40/40 = .984 (call it 1)

Looking at esurge / mistrust / cry

Adjusted recharges after 40/40: 8.2 + 1, 6.56 + 1, 8.2 + 1

9.2, 7.56, 9.2

99 / 9.2 + 142 / 7.56 + 79 / 9.2

10.76 + 18.78 + 8.58 = 38.12

times nearby targets = you're ahead with just 3 in theory.

In practice it's not quite *that* good, but as promised, better damage if you can ball em. With 6 foes for example it's not even close.

Quote:

3/4ths of the rit's power comes from using Splinter Weapon well, and when its being placed on something that isn't me it doesn't get used well.

On that topic.... this has been working surprisingly well for melee support.

Esurge
Cry
Mistrust
Shatter hex
Siphon Spirit
Splinter Weapon
Ancestor's Rage
FomF / Unnatural Signet

10 channel / 9 FC

Assuming you have spirits on your team, siphons been working better for me than inspiration...

Dzjudz · Apr 29, 2011, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Really? SoGM Rits deal ~90 DPS I believe to a single target with micro, before counting Painful Bond. How much does an ESurge Mesmer do?

Well, depends on the amount of foes you hit (like I said, 'provided you know how to pull/ball a little). 5 enemies in a ball is 1775 damage from ESurge + Mistrust + Unnatural Signet + Cry of Frustration in a couple of seconds. Add another ESurge mesmer and double that number (can't double SoGMs). Of course you have to factor in recharge, but then you also have to factor in non-mobility of SoGM, dead spirits, etc etc. DPS can't be compared that easily (Master of Damage?). But I think it's not hard to maintain that in proper balls an ESurge rocks a SoGM.